I don't think we've fully realised yet the affect the Iran war is having on FBPE centrist dads - so many who for years have been 'just anti-trump' suddenly diving into the depths of anti-Semitic conspiracy and groyperism due to the war.
The most shocking example for me was The Man in Seat 61, a rail journalist, who is very much a FBPE type and not a leftist crank, endorsing similar false flag conspiracies. Much like the mayor of Bath he apologised pretty quickly but the damage will have been done to thousands of similar people who don't have to deal with blowback from having such a big public profile.
Yes, I think that's certainly true - I was wondering about putting that guy in the piece as well, but was wanting to keep it focused.
I think part of the problem is that social media encourages a mindset where you follow politics like you follow football: you pick a team, and stick with them through thick and thin. (See people live tweeting Question Time or #PMQs like it's the big match). So then it becomes harder to take the respectable middle of the road position that none of Trump, Netanyahu and the Mullahs are good because you're meant to decide that the enemy of your enemy can't be that bad after all
Great post Oliver. I've had zero success in persuading my liberal and lefty friends (many of who are academics or peri-academia) that left-wing conspiracy-theory land really exists. It's remarkable that Cadwalladr - who has been unhinged for nearly a decade now - is still considered worthy of reference in serious debate. And I'm also unsurprised that the Mayor of Bath is linked to iSAGE etc. Is there a BluSky nexus there as well?
Thanks, I think some people genuinely assume that they are immune to this kind of stuff, and turn their critical thinking heads off. And yes, I suspect Bluesky is a factor too - I don't think you can underestimate the importance of having people who will say something when you go off on one
Sure, I'm not absolutely certain by any means that he is sincere (he follows some troubling accounts on Twitter for example). But maybe it can be an opportunity for him to sincerely reflect and make amends
I found the article interesting and informative, but unsurprising. I do have one point of disagreement, or maybe just a query. The Observer reported:
"In early April (2021), Bangladesh and Pakistan were added to the red list even though infection rates were far lower than in India; the government did not add India to the list until three weeks later;"
and suggested this was due to Boris's late April trade deal visit. I must confess, given Boris's record of essentially selling residency visas to any Indian student with the money, via his bogus "the best and brightest from around the world (any degree from any UK university) " bogus Graduate Visa scheme, I'd put little past him and probably believed it at the time.
I've just scrolled through the Observer comments and found:
"UK put India on the red list at about the same time as Canada, two of the first countries in the world to do so. Germany followed a week or so later, and the EU only last week;"
which, if true, is perhaps part of a justification.
Following a TV documentary, I was tempted by the fake moon landings (shadows and flag), but eventually discounted it as many people would have needed to know. This is the most massive and, I think, the most believed conspiracy theory.
I agree about that. All through the epidemic I was annoyed by the claims, for political ends, of Independent SAGE et al that these measures could prevent a virus entering the UK and that a few days here or there is relevant.
A generalisation of one of your points may be this: traumatic events (either in someone's personal experience or at the societal level) can make people more susceptible to believing in conspiracy theories or low-probability, 'maximally sinister' explanations for events. Both Brexit and Covid can be understood in this context: Covid was clearly traumatic for many people, including medical professionals, who may have seen people they were close to die painful deaths - and may have partly attributed it to government failures, making them more likely to believe worse things of the government in the future. Brexit (slightly less obviously) was also a traumatic event for some, e.g. those who experienced direct racism in the aftermath of the Brexit vote and attributed it (plausibly) to the increased acceptability of racism in a larger segment of British society, which in turn may have been an unfortunate consequences of the vote. Or those who had a very strong emotional attachment to another European country or to the EU project, or saw Brexit as the first step on the way back to the semi-permanent state of hostility that existed between European powers before 1945. In general I think there are many historical examples of (individual or societal) trauma making people more susceptible to believing in conspiracy theories. E.g. Germany between the wars (post-WW1 and post the Great Depression), or France following its defeat in the Franco-Prussian war, or, going much further back, many European cities during the Black Death.
On COVID, one dividing line for me is that it's very possible to believe that the Government (ours or others) handled things badly, but where it starts to cross the line is where people start coming up with some sinister plan that it was deliberately handled badly (people in corners of social media will mutter darkly about eugenics etc). I think the same is true about the conspiracy theory in the other direction - the idea that the pandemic was fake and lockdowns were deliberately designed as a long-term tool of social control invests Governments with more competence than may necessarily be plausible!
Interesting. Those I know who hate Brexit with a vengeance have often suffered traumatic changes to conditions applied to owning and visiting a second home in the EU.
Others have non-financial reasons for being (very) upset though. E.g. British people I know whose partner is French, or people with one British and one French parent. A lot of Anglophile mainland-Europeans were also very upset. It's also interesting that the very elderly, who were old enough to remember WW2, voted for Brexit less often than the Boomer generation, who didn't live through WW2.
What you say about the very elderly rings true. My father, conscripted in 1945, was fairly right wing generally, but he did once say he thought the then Common Market would prevent further wars, and it wouldn't surprise me if he voted remain.
Thank you. It appears that I didn't really miss anything new during my absence from social media. Same thing, just variations ...
What I always find so surprising is the confidence with which such statements are made - especially from people whose job it is (or should be) to be very sceptical of everything (isn't this what academics and journalists are supposed to be).
But then I assume no-one wants to read boring stuff.
I don't think we've fully realised yet the affect the Iran war is having on FBPE centrist dads - so many who for years have been 'just anti-trump' suddenly diving into the depths of anti-Semitic conspiracy and groyperism due to the war.
The most shocking example for me was The Man in Seat 61, a rail journalist, who is very much a FBPE type and not a leftist crank, endorsing similar false flag conspiracies. Much like the mayor of Bath he apologised pretty quickly but the damage will have been done to thousands of similar people who don't have to deal with blowback from having such a big public profile.
Yes, I think that's certainly true - I was wondering about putting that guy in the piece as well, but was wanting to keep it focused.
I think part of the problem is that social media encourages a mindset where you follow politics like you follow football: you pick a team, and stick with them through thick and thin. (See people live tweeting Question Time or #PMQs like it's the big match). So then it becomes harder to take the respectable middle of the road position that none of Trump, Netanyahu and the Mullahs are good because you're meant to decide that the enemy of your enemy can't be that bad after all
Great post Oliver. I've had zero success in persuading my liberal and lefty friends (many of who are academics or peri-academia) that left-wing conspiracy-theory land really exists. It's remarkable that Cadwalladr - who has been unhinged for nearly a decade now - is still considered worthy of reference in serious debate. And I'm also unsurprised that the Mayor of Bath is linked to iSAGE etc. Is there a BluSky nexus there as well?
Thanks, I think some people genuinely assume that they are immune to this kind of stuff, and turn their critical thinking heads off. And yes, I suspect Bluesky is a factor too - I don't think you can underestimate the importance of having people who will say something when you go off on one
Thank you once again for my favourite Saturday read.
However I’d like to take issue with you that Dr Bharat Panhkania’s apology was sincere.
That a medical doctor could share antisemitic posts about the torching of Hatzolah ambulances is astonishing.
I’m afraid that I am not as charitable as you.
His sharing of those posts is inexcusable and leaves me wondering whether the apology was merely expedient.
He is precisely the sort of person that feeds antisemitism.
It simultaneously angers and saddens me.
Best wishes
Jean Richardson
Sure, I'm not absolutely certain by any means that he is sincere (he follows some troubling accounts on Twitter for example). But maybe it can be an opportunity for him to sincerely reflect and make amends
I found the article interesting and informative, but unsurprising. I do have one point of disagreement, or maybe just a query. The Observer reported:
"In early April (2021), Bangladesh and Pakistan were added to the red list even though infection rates were far lower than in India; the government did not add India to the list until three weeks later;"
and suggested this was due to Boris's late April trade deal visit. I must confess, given Boris's record of essentially selling residency visas to any Indian student with the money, via his bogus "the best and brightest from around the world (any degree from any UK university) " bogus Graduate Visa scheme, I'd put little past him and probably believed it at the time.
I've just scrolled through the Observer comments and found:
"UK put India on the red list at about the same time as Canada, two of the first countries in the world to do so. Germany followed a week or so later, and the EU only last week;"
which, if true, is perhaps part of a justification.
Following a TV documentary, I was tempted by the fake moon landings (shadows and flag), but eventually discounted it as many people would have needed to know. This is the most massive and, I think, the most believed conspiracy theory.
I think the other thing that's worth saying is that I'm not entirely convinced to what extent border closures or the red list would have helped keep delta out completely - I think the most you can hope for is that it might have delayed matters by a week or so. For example, omicron was first announced by Tom Peacock on 23rd November https://x.com/PeacockFlu/status/1463176821416075279 and we put southern African countries on the red list on 25th https://www.gov.uk/government/news/six-african-countries-added-to-red-list-to-protect-public-health-as-uk-designates-new-variant-under-investigation but it didn't exactly help us in avoiding that wave
I agree about that. All through the epidemic I was annoyed by the claims, for political ends, of Independent SAGE et al that these measures could prevent a virus entering the UK and that a few days here or there is relevant.
A generalisation of one of your points may be this: traumatic events (either in someone's personal experience or at the societal level) can make people more susceptible to believing in conspiracy theories or low-probability, 'maximally sinister' explanations for events. Both Brexit and Covid can be understood in this context: Covid was clearly traumatic for many people, including medical professionals, who may have seen people they were close to die painful deaths - and may have partly attributed it to government failures, making them more likely to believe worse things of the government in the future. Brexit (slightly less obviously) was also a traumatic event for some, e.g. those who experienced direct racism in the aftermath of the Brexit vote and attributed it (plausibly) to the increased acceptability of racism in a larger segment of British society, which in turn may have been an unfortunate consequences of the vote. Or those who had a very strong emotional attachment to another European country or to the EU project, or saw Brexit as the first step on the way back to the semi-permanent state of hostility that existed between European powers before 1945. In general I think there are many historical examples of (individual or societal) trauma making people more susceptible to believing in conspiracy theories. E.g. Germany between the wars (post-WW1 and post the Great Depression), or France following its defeat in the Franco-Prussian war, or, going much further back, many European cities during the Black Death.
I think that's a good point, thanks.
On COVID, one dividing line for me is that it's very possible to believe that the Government (ours or others) handled things badly, but where it starts to cross the line is where people start coming up with some sinister plan that it was deliberately handled badly (people in corners of social media will mutter darkly about eugenics etc). I think the same is true about the conspiracy theory in the other direction - the idea that the pandemic was fake and lockdowns were deliberately designed as a long-term tool of social control invests Governments with more competence than may necessarily be plausible!
Imagine a government that could not only plan such a complex operation, but also execute it - without flaws, without leaks ...
When was the last time we had a government that could do this?
Interesting. Those I know who hate Brexit with a vengeance have often suffered traumatic changes to conditions applied to owning and visiting a second home in the EU.
Others have non-financial reasons for being (very) upset though. E.g. British people I know whose partner is French, or people with one British and one French parent. A lot of Anglophile mainland-Europeans were also very upset. It's also interesting that the very elderly, who were old enough to remember WW2, voted for Brexit less often than the Boomer generation, who didn't live through WW2.
What you say about the very elderly rings true. My father, conscripted in 1945, was fairly right wing generally, but he did once say he thought the then Common Market would prevent further wars, and it wouldn't surprise me if he voted remain.
Thank you. It appears that I didn't really miss anything new during my absence from social media. Same thing, just variations ...
What I always find so surprising is the confidence with which such statements are made - especially from people whose job it is (or should be) to be very sceptical of everything (isn't this what academics and journalists are supposed to be).
But then I assume no-one wants to read boring stuff.
I think there were probably memes and things, but that's less fun